Showing posts with label Genesis. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Genesis. Show all posts

Tuesday, August 11, 2009

Rain, Rain Go Away (Noah's Ark Part II)

(Noah's Ark - Part 2 of 2)

In Part One we left Noah after God had instructed the poor old guy to build an ark to ride out a global flood, making it of such length that it would not be seaworthy, using an unknown wood, and then filling it with two of every beast, fowl and creeping thing on the earth, all within seven days. Would this be a problem for a 600 year old man with no shipbuilding experience? Apparently not, for in Genesis 7:5 we read:

And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.

Probably the thought of drowning gave Noah a pretty strong incentive. Then in Genesis 7:7-9 we are told:

7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,

9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.


So how did the animals make it from the far reaches of the globe to Noah in only seven days? How could a pair of sloths or a pair of koalas travel trough the jungles unmolested? What did Noah do if only one showed up? Or three? And what about Noah's neighbors? Would they not get suspicious when Noah, who was always walking around with God, builds this massive ship in only seven days, and then starts taking a bunch of animals on board? Did they not ask questions? Did they not figure out what was going on when God stopped his walks with Noah and the rains came? If these people were wicked and with evil thoughts, why did they not swamp the ark? Did they just stand there, thinking evil thoughts and scratching their heads as the ark floated away? Did Noah have no compassion for his friends and neighbors who were destined to drown?

Whatever the case, the rains did come and we are told in Genesis 7:20-21 how great and devastating the flood was:

20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:


Is this a misprint or were mountains smaller in those days? Is 15 cubits not only around 23 feet (7 meters). Couldn't people survive on the roofs of their houses in only 15 cubits of water? If the ark was only 30meters high, would the bottom not be scrapping on the mountains? And what about the birds? Once all the land was covered and the ark was the only thing to rest on, would not every bird in a 10 mile radius swamp it? Did Noah have to continuously shoo them away? Did he have scarecrows on deck?

Genesis 8:3-5 says:

3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.

4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.


Where did Noah get fresh water from once the rains stopped? Did he bring enough with him for all the animals for ten full months? And had any consideration been given to the mess that tens of thousands of animals must have created during that ten months? Noah and his sons, when not shooing birds, must have worked 24/7 shoveling shit overboard. And even if the crap could be disposed of, how could they survive with the stench, not to mention the smell of urine. With tens of thousands of animals pissing everyday, would not the entire hold of the ark be filled with urine? Were the wives bailing out the hold while the men were working the shovels? What did PETA and the SPCA think of animals being kept in such appalling conditions? Could there not have been an easier way to do this mass smiting?

Finally in Genesis 8:13 it looks like Noah's nightmare might be coming to an end:

And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.

But did Noah rush from the ark? Did he and his family burst forth, gasping for fresh air after being cooped up with smelly animals and creepy things for so long? Apparently not, for in the next verse we read:

And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.

Now what the hell was Noah thinking? If the water was gone the first time he looked, why did he stay on board for another seven weeks, shoveling shit and bailing out piss? Had the animals caused him to lose his mind? Was he really surprised after finding the land dry, that it was still dry seven weeks later. Did he think that maybe God had missed a creeping thing or two, and was going to flood the planet again for their sake?

Perhaps Noah was just waiting for the order to disembark, for in Genesis 8:17 God finally say:

Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.


So how did all those fowl things and creeping things that creepeth upon the earth make it back home? Could Noah not have made some stops as the waters were receding, and dropped the beasts off in their natural habitats? What protection did they have on their return journey? Were some eaten into extinction during that time? Is this what happened to the giant sloth? And unicorns?

But other animals weren't the only thing that the survivors of the ark had to worry about. Despite God's command that the animals be fruitful and multiply upon the earth, Noah apparently had a score to settle with some. In Genesis 8:24 we're told:

And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar

Were these clean beasts the ones who fouled the ship the most? Did he get carried away and burn some into extinction? How big a fire did Noah make to burn of every species? And where did he find enough dry wood?

Fortunately for Noah, God liked a good barbecue and He wasn't pissed. In fact, in Genesis 8:21 we read:

And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

So what the hell is the point of this story? Is it that God made a colossal mistake that took the lives of almost every living creature on the planet, and only when it was too late did He regret it? Is there any comfort in that for us? How should we react? Should we too burn some animals to make a smell pleasing to the Lord? In that way, will He also forgive our evil ways? What would PETA say about this? What can I do if my community has regulations restricting open fires? Can I make any other smells that would be pleasing to the Lord?

And what ever became of Noah? How did he deal with his house full of mud, and dead and decomposing bodies of men, beasts, and even creeping things all over the land? Well, in Genesis 9:20-21 we're told:

20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.


Should we emulate Noah in this sense too. After a stressful task, should we too become intoxicated and lay around naked? Is this the true secret to finding grace in the eyes of God?

Here Comes That Rainy Day Feeling Again (Noah's Ark Part I)

(Noah's Ark - Part 1 of 2)
In the early chapters of Genesis, not long after creating man, God started having second thoughts about what He had done. In Genesis 6:5-6 we read:

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.


But back in Genesis 3:3 did God not say :

Behold, the man is become as one of us

So what the hell happened? If man was created in God's image and later became as God, how did he get so evil? Is God saying that the (forbidden) apple doesn't fall too far from the tree? Why didn't God nip this wicked behavior in the bud if it pissed Him off? Why did He allow it to get out of control? Why didn't He correct man when he first started thinking those evil thoughts? Couldn't He have set up some sort of counseling? Maybe man just got bored. I mean, what the hell was there to do back then? Couldn't God have organized some sort of activities or team sports to keep man occupied and out of trouble?

Whatever the reasons, God wasn't going to share in the blame, nor was He going to take it any more. In Genesis 6:7 we read:

And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Was this not a bit of an overreaction? Were man not God's children? Could God not have tried to rehabilitate them? And why was God taking His anger out on the beasts and the fowls, not to mention the poor creeping thing? What the hell did they do? Were they guilty by association? Why were they made the scapegoats? What about the fish and all those abominations of the sea? How did they escape God wrath? And by the way, what the hell is the creeping thing?

Well anyway, there was one old guy who hadn't managed to piss God off. In Genesis 6:8 we're told

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord

What did Noah do to make himself graceful? Should the Bible not tell us, so we to can find grace in the eyes of the Lord? Is this information not of paramount importance? And how did Noah remain graceful while surrounded by all that wickedness? Wouldn't the wicked guys have kicked his ass? Cain killed Abel when Abel was God's favorite, so how was Noah surviving as the favorite? Maybe the explanation is in Genesis 6:9, for there we're told that:

. . . . Noah walked with God

So was God like Noah's bodyguard? Sure, no one would kick Noah's ass when he was strutting around with an Omnipotent Being. But could it be that Noah was only good because God was walking with him? What if God had walked with others too? Would perhaps their wickedness not have been so great and their thoughts not so evil? Would it have hurt God to go walking with some others as well?

Apparently God wasn't up to just walking with anybody, and so he continued with His plans for mass destruction. In Genesis 6:14-15, He says to Noah:

14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.


Is that not quite a strenuous a task for an old guy like Noah? In Genesis 7:6 we learn that the poor guy is 600 years old. That's well beyond retirement age. Should he not just be relaxing and enjoying his twilight years? Was Noah allowed to hire anyone to build this ship? If the whole world was indulging in wickedness, then are we to assume there were no honest and God-fearing shipbuilders that Noah could turn to? And if he hired a shipbuilder with evil thoughts, would Noah not be contributing to the evilness? But if Noah started building ships on his own, how would the Shipbuilders Union react? Would they not destroy his operation?


And what the hell is gopher wood, and where was Noah to find so much of it? Is there even such a thing today as gopher wood? Did Noah use it all up? Who was to teach Noah shipbuilding? And why did God chose the cubit for measurement? Could He not think of something more standard? If a cubit varies with the person, whose cubit is God talking about? Is it a man-sized cubit or a God-sized cubit? And how could poor old Noah build such a large ship? Would these cubits not make the ark about 450 feet by 75 feet (137 meters by 23 meters)? Could such a wooden ship even remain afloat? Would such a long ship not fold in the middle if carried over a large wave? Did smaller ships like the Schooner Wyoming and the HMS Mersey not suffer structural problems due to their length?

But the ark that God wanted old Noah to build wasn't just to be for sunset dinner cruises. In Genesis 6:17 we learn of God's plans:

And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Did God really think this thing through? Did He seriously ask a 600 year old guy to build an unseaworthy vessel from an unknown wood, for the purpose of riding out a flood of Biblical proportions? Does God not think straight when He's pissed? And again this obsession to kill everything? Has God no compassion? What about the elderly or the little babies? Were their deaths to be the first case of collateral damage?

Then to make matters worse, God comes up with some more outrageous instructions for Noah. In Genesis 6:19 He hits Noah with this directive:

And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

How was Noah to choose which animals lived and which died? Were there animals that had found grace and others that indulged in wickedness? In Genesis 3:22 did Got not say that only He and man could tell good from evil? Again, why were the beasts and the creepy thing made to suffer, and why was Noah made the bad guy who had to choose?

And then, what about the hermaphrodites, such as snails? Can they not act as male and female? How could Noah tell which was which at what time? And how much free time did God think Noah had? In the next two verses God goes on to say that Noah had to take two of everything, including birds and creeping things, as well as food for the whole gang. Could God have not given Noah a hand, since they were walking around together all the time? And was there even room in the ark, despite its huge size, for so many creatures? Is this why we lost the big mammals, like the sabertooth tiger and the woolly mammoth? Could Noah not squeeze everybody on? Why did he pick on the big mammals to leave out and not those creepy things? If something had to be left behind, why not creepy things? Or viruses? Or bacteria?

Well, apparently God thought there was extra room in the ark, for He told Noah in Genesis 7:2-3 to take even more of the clean animals:

2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.


Now, what was the deal with the creatures by sevens, the male and his female? Was math different back then? Could 2 be divided into 7 evenly? Was it something that only God could do? If not, were there not some clean males hanging around without their females?

Despite the amount of time and manpower required, God was being impatient. In Genesis 7:4 He says:

For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights

Talk about unrealistic deadlines! How could a feeble old guy do all that in only seven days? Did God not realize that quality is often sacrificed for quantity? Was Noah allowed to work on the sabbath? Did God not forbid such activities under penalty of death? Did God really mean seven working days? What kind of shifts did Noah put in? Was overtime authorized? Were there any violation of the labor laws that went unreported?

See Part II for the Great Deluge

Tuesday, July 28, 2009

A Little Knowledge is a Bad Thing (Original Sin) aka Paradise Lost / Trouble in Paradise

Genesis tells the story of creation, and how God created the first man, who was known as Adam. In Genesis 2:15-17 we learn what God did with that man:

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the Garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."


Okay, a couple of questions here. First, who was writing this? There wasn't anybody around except God and Adam, right? That means that one of them was writing about himself in the third person, which is just weird.

Second, if God had this special tree that He didn't want Adam to eat from, why the hell would He put Adam right next to it? Couldn't He have put Adam in one garden and the forbidden tree in another? I mean, He had the whole planet at His disposal, didn't He? And why did God even need a tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Didn't He just build the whole planet like a week prior? God must have known good and evil before that, even without the tree. So who was the fruit of the forbidden tree for?

Genesis 2:18 goes on to say that man shouldn't be alone. Does this mean that Adam wasn't taking care of his bachelor pad? Was he leaving trash scattered all over the place and dishes undone? Whatever the reason, God decided to create a woman, who was later known as Eve. Genesis 2:25 tells us:

And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

So were Adam and Eve just running around naked, eating freely from every tree but one with not a care in the world? What kind of other good things did God have growing in the Garden of Eden?

Anyway, all was well and good until one day Eve met a snake, as stated in Genesis 3:1 :

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Could all animals talk back then? Was the serpent the most subtil <sic> because he could talk? Who taught him, if not God? Did the same person teach Eve to talk? She not only understood the serpent, but she answered it as well. Genesis 3:2-3 tells us:

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


Did Eve get different restrictions than Adam? Why was Adam only forbidden to eat the fruit, but Eve was forbidden to touch it as well? Was this the first case of sexism?

In Genesis 3:4-5 we learn of the serpent's response:

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


Was the serpent calling God a liar? Was the serpent saying that God was keeping the really good stuff from the humans? How did the serpent know this? Had he eaten from the tree? Did he know good from evil? And why did he say "gods" in the plural? Were there some other gods out there writing this all down. It would eliminate the problem of someone referring to himself in the third person, but who were these other gods?

Verses 6 and 7 tell us what happened next:

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.


Does this mean that the serpent had been truthful? More truthful than God? Were Adam and Eve complete morons until they ate the fruit? Were they really too stupid to know they were naked? Did they even notice that the other was naked? Did they care? Would the human race have ended with those two? Were they just prancing around like the animals? Animals with no sex drive? Is this how God wanted humans to always live? Did God never want us to have any wisdom? And who taught the man and the woman to sew? Was that the serpent too?

Genesis 3:14-19 tell of God's reaction, and to say that He was pissed is putting it mildly:

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


God didn't cut anyone any breaks, did He? But why was He so pissed? Did He take any blame on Himself for putting the tree there unnecessarily? Why did he want humans to be stupid? Did He never intend for us to have any wisdom? Why did He think it bad that we know good from evil? How could we worship Him if we were no different in intelligence than the animals? Why did He curse the snake for helping us? Why did He take Adam and Eve's disobedience out on all of us? Did the snake have legs before it was cursed to eat dust? God doesn't mention taking its power of speech, so why can't today's snakes talk?

Why does the Church teach that the serpent was Satan? The Bible doesn't say so, does it? Did the snake not help us in the long run? Would we all not just be running around stupid and naked if not for the snake? Why did God lie to Adam about dying on the same day he would eat from the tree? The Bible says Adam live for 930 years! And what happened to this husband ruling over the woman curse? Did that one just fade away?

Then in Genesis 3:22 we learn that there was a second tree that was pretty cool too! :

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Had Adam and Eve eaten from that tree too, would we all live forever? Would we be indestructible? Where would we all live? What would we do with the cemeteries? Why didn't the serpent mention the other tree? Why didn't the talking snake live forever? Who was God talking to when He said, "The man is become as one of us"? Was God talking to those other gods that the serpent mentioned? Were Thor and Hercules from the old Saturday morning cartoons real?Does God still live with His family? Why have we never met the others? Is God embarrassed by us?


Sunday, July 19, 2009

Raising Cain (The First Murder)

In the first book of the Bible, Genesis, Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden of Eden and Adam had to till the land. No more laying around in the lush paradise for him. I'll bet he was kicking himself in the ass for all of his 930 years. Anyway, after leaving the Garden, God must have kept watching them. With nobody else on earth, who else could He watch? And He must have written down all of their exploits too. Well, maybe Adam and Eve wrote about themselves, I don't know. But somebody was writing. Genesis 4:1 tells us:

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived

In fact, she conceived more than once. Their first two kids were boys. The eldest was named Cain and the younger, Abel. Genesis 4:2 tells us:

And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

I guess there weren't a lot of career choices back then. Maybe it would have been nice if one of the kids could have gone into medicine or engineering or something. But they both decided to stay around and help Dad with the farm. Eventually these two had enough where they decided to make an offering to God. Abel gave the firstlings of his flock and Cain gave some fruit of the ground. Genesis 4:4 and 4:5 tell us:

And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.


Now why the hell did these two make their offerings at the same time? God probably filled up on lamb and had no room for vegetables. Why couldn't Cain have just waited until God was hungry again? Then he could have saved himself some wrothness and a fallen countenance. But we all know how young people are, so Cain was walking around wroth with an unrespected offering. Then in Genesis 4:6:

The Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

Now this seems a pretty weird question for God to ask. I mean, I can figure what wrothed Cain off and gave him a fallen countenance, so why couldn't an Omnipotent Being get it as well? Did God really know what was going on and was He just trying to wroth Cain off even more? Did He just want Cain to try harder and get his offering in first next time? Well, Genesis 4:8 says:

And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

So that whole plan backfired, didn't it?! Now there'd be no more firstlings of the flock offered at all. Why did God piss Cain off like that? Having no brothers, didn't God understand about sibling rivalry?

The very next verse of the Bible tells us:

And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother?

Did God really not know where Abel was? With only 4 people on the earth, had God actually lost track of 25 percent of them? And did Cain even have time to get out of the field before God asked him this? Cain, even though he was probably still standing next to the body, did a pretty good job of avoiding the question by asking another question:

And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

Cain would have done well as the world's first lawyer. Apparently God wasn't falling for it though. It seems He knew what was going on all along, for He shot back with:

What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Well, Cain knew if there was crying blood, he was screwed. He started whining, and in Genesis 4:14 he said:

And it shall come to pass, that everyone that findeth me shall slay me.

What the hell does Cain mean by "everyone?" The only two people left are his parents. This brings up some interesting questions too. What would the parents think about the murder. They couldn't very well say things like "He gets that from your side of the family." Anyway, Cain is worried about everyone killing him, so in Genesis 4:15:

The Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

So is God going along here and humoring Cain? If He humors Cain by playing along that there are multitudes of other people out there, why didn't He humor Cain by pretending to like his offering? Would it have hurt God to say something like, "Hey Cain, nice fruits of the ground you gave me!" and then just dump it in the trash can when Cain wasn't looking? That could have prevented this whole ugly situation. Did God even look at Cain's fruit of the ground? It may not have been anything like broccoli or asparagus. It could have been the best Weed" that side of the Tigris and Euphrates.

So how could vengeance be taken sevenfold for the murder of Cain? Would God just keep bringing the person back and killing him seven times? Wouldn't that be cruel and unusual punishment? And what was the mark God put on Cain? Was it just a sign that said "Don't Kill Me By Order of God?" Who could read back then? God seems to have liked to mess with Cain, so maybe he put a "Kick Me" sign on his back.

Now verses 16 and 17 really get weird. Here we're told that:

Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city


So does this mean that God had been hiding a whole subdivision called "Nod" just to the East of Eden? And who was Cain's wife? Was Eve not the only woman on the planet? Should we call the Oedipus Complex the "Cain Complex?" And how big was this city that he built by himself? I mean, he was just a farmer, not an architect.

Who wrote all this stuff down? I would think that God would be too busy. But if not God, then it had to be Cain. Why did he incriminate himself? There weren't any witnesses. God didn't even see it. He only knew because of the crying blood, which may not have been admissible in court. Maybe if the case went to court, the court would have taken into consideration mitigating circumstances. Cain did come from a weird family. Could a good lawyer have got his sentence reduced by claiming diminished capacity? Could Cain have represented himself? Where would they find 12 people for a jury?

So why is this story even in the Bible? What does it teach us? Why did Cain get off so light when a few chapters later God's gonna want to kill the whole world in a Great Flood because He thinks they're all wicked. ? Why didn't anyone except Noah receive the "Don't Kill" mark? Will God put a "Don't Kill" mark on any of is who kills, or is it only killing over a disrespected offering when wroth?